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Blog Entry# 1929538
Posted: Jul 14 2016 (16:46)

3 Responses
Last Response: Jul 14 2016 (23:50)
Rail News
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Jul 14 2016 (16:17)   Delhi to Mumbai in less than 12 hours? Talgo will first have to pass these three tests by Indian Railways
 

Jayashree^   51418 news posts
Entry# 1929538   News Entry# 273719         Tags   Past Edits
Talgo, the Spanish manufacturer of high-speed trains, has taken up the challenge of covering the distance between Delhi and Mumbai in less than 12 hours, with...

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Jul 14 2016 (16:46)
Sanz~
Sanz~   8527 blog posts
Re# 1929538-1              
130 and 150 mps runs would be interesting.
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Jul 14 2016 (21:23)
simplelive   249 blog posts
Re# 1929538-2              
it is better than bullet magnlev train. i always thought technology can speed up upto 200km per hour at good railway normal track
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Jul 14 2016 (23:50)
I.R.needrejuvenation~
I.R.needrejuvenation~   1946 blog posts
Re# 1929538-3              
First Mile stone achieved, but still many more to be achieved. Although, the Talgo train under trial have maximum speed potential of 250 kmph on electric routes and 180 kmph on non- electrified routes. It is learnt that in India, they will be tested till 200-220 kmph only, subject to condition that the results of trials at lower speeds are successful.
There are many questions to be answered before commercial operations of Talgo train actually (and profitably) begin in our country.
(1) Why is the talgo train being hauled by
...
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WDP loco (diesel) during the trials, if standard Talgo train set has its own electric loco, especially when it is supposed to begin its maiden journey on fully electrified Delhi-Mumbai route??
(2) Does IR want to operate such train with WDP loco on non-electrified routes? Which does not seem very probable as almost all rly routes (including major cities) are quickly getting electrified.
(3)Whether the Talgo train set hauled by its own integrated electric loco tested in these series of trials? This must be done as Semi HS trains shall ultimately be operating on Electric traction.
(4) Shall trials be done with our WAP-5 loco (which can be operated at 200kmph+ with minor modifications) hauling the Talgo train? This is desirable as it will give us flexibility of operating Talgo coaches in future.
(5) Shall more Talgo coaches be brought in to make its length equal to standard Rajdhani rake so that the trial results are relevant to IRlys. It is essential to have a longer trains (500M+) for successful operation in India where, the traffic density is very high. That is why IR operate longest trains (w.r.t. train length) in the world in large numbers.
After completion of phase-2 of trial and before final conclusion of trials, a test of full length (500M) talgo train is essential. Present Talgo train with about 150M length, when elongated to a hefty 525 M (Maximum Rajdhani Length), shall not be in a position to sustain same level of speed and to give same quality of ride. In fact new standards of train length in IRly have already been pegged at a new high of about 600M! (26 ICF coaches with 1 or 2 locos).
Technical specifications of Talgo trains (official Talgo website) states that maximum train length permitted is 183M only. Comprising of 11 coaches (13M per coach) and a loco at each end (19M per loco). At maximum coach length reserved for passengers will be 130 M length only (removing length of pantry car and locos). This means only 390 ACIII passengers could travel.
In order to compare revenue collection of the proposed Talgo rake Rajdhani & present LHB rake Rajdhani, we assume all coaches in the train are ACIII coaches for simplicity of calculation. There are 3 scenarios:
(1) Present Rajdhani has max. 21 coaches and length of 525M (including 18 passenger coaches, I pantrycar, 2 EOG cars, 1WAP loco). Maximum coach length reserved for passengers is 432 M long (18 LHB coaches). This is means 1296 ACIII passengers could travel.
(2) When EOG cars will be replaced by passenger cars in due course of time, length for passenger accommodation shall be increased to 480M (20 LHB coaches) which can accommodate 1440 ACIII passengers.
(3) When new IRly bench mark of 26 coaches is applied to Rajdhani Express, 2 additional coaches shall be attached, length for passenger accommodation shall be further increased to 528M(22 LHB coaches) which can accommodate 1656 ACIII passengers.
In order to make optimum use of line capacity, IRly should at least try to collect same revenue from Talgo train as it is collecting through the Rajdhani Express at present.
In order to have a same revenue collection as Full length Rajdhani Express, the fares of Standard length Talgo train (10 ACIII Coach+3) have to be 3.3 times the present Rajdhani Fare (18 ACIII coach+3).
And if the EOG coaches are replaced by passenger coaches as planned, then the Talgo fare has to be 3.7 times the Rajdhani fare(20ACIII+1PC).
Further, If new bench mark of 26 coaches is applied to Rajdhani Express, then, the Talgo fare has to be 4.2 times the Rajdhani fare(22ACIII+1PC)
People would not like to pay over 3 times the fare of Rajdhani express just to board Talgo and save 4 hrs in a journey of 16 hrs. They wold rather prefer to pay about 1.75 to 2 times the Rajdhani fare to board an airplane and save 14 hrs journey time instead of just 4 hours. If fares are kept lower than this calculate level, the talgo trains shall be worse option the LHB Rajdhani.
Today, line capacity is the most precious & scarcest resource for IRlys. Talgo train doing Mum-Delhi in 12 hrs @115kmph shall consume more line capacity than today’s Rajdhani doing the same in 16 hrs @ 85kmph . Present Rajdhani having a speed differential of only 20 kmph over other Super fast express trains (@ 65 kmph) on the route is often too hot to handle for I Rlys, as many trains have to be stopped to give pass to Rajdhani. The huge speed differential (50kmph) which Talgo shall carry with it, shall definitely play havoc with the running of other trains. Largenumber of trains shall be stopped to give pass to the Talgo train. Condition of freight trains cannot be imagined. Probably Talgo train can be operated at 180-200 kmph only after construction of western DFC when all the goods trains of the route are shifted to new DFC.
Most probably running Talgo trains as per their specifications is likely to be a loss making proposition for Indian Railways, unless it is practically confirmed through trials, that it can safely run at targeted operational speed with much longer rakes.
Talgo train trial shall be written in red letters in the history of IRlys for creating a new record of speed on IR track. The proposed Mumbai Delhi talgo train is supposed to have sleeper coaches but the trial rake comprise of chair car coaches,. Even if IRlys decide to go ahead with talgo project, new train set has to be ordered which may take even more than a year to come to India. We are unlikely to see commercial operation of Delhi-Mum talgo soon.

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